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Starlight
Posts:8
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| 11/03/2009 8:19 PM |
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| Hey, I'm wondering, is there such a thing as a 'modesty limit'? Is every guy differest when it comes to lusting after girls...like... I don't know how to ask it to make sense...!! Well, I know for some guys, they're always looking AT you, and it's almost like they're lusting, and you get really embarrased, so I was wondering is there anything you can do to stop it...do you wear different clothes or something?? I don't think what I wear is immodest, like, its not tight, or a low neck, and usually I've got a skirt on to below my knees...Help!! |
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JoJo
Posts:1657
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| 11/04/2009 1:07 AM |
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| as David has said countless times lol. the only way to stop guys "looking" at you is to wear a massive box.... all i can say is when you dress yourself, watch your thoughts, as long as you're not thinking "I look so fine in this every guy will be staring at me" or something worse, and you have good intentions behind why you're wearing what you're wearing... you shouldn't worry too much. also watch how you act with what you're wearing... if you act a little "dirty" shall we say... you're kinda asking guys to look at you that way. so if you avoid that, that's all you can really do. if the guys bother you that much maybe politely tell them that you are not a piece of meat and deserve more respect from them and would appreciate if they don't look at you like that. if that doesn't help, avoid going near the places those guys hang out... I really donno what else to say... |
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Turn up the music
Turn it up loud
Take a few chances
Let it all out
'Cause you won't regret it
Lookin' back from where you have been
'Cause it's not who you knew
And it's not what you did
It's how you live
.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
God Bless!
Mwah XOXO
JoJo |
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David
Posts:499
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| 11/05/2009 6:28 PM |
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| Starlight, I would follow much of what Jojo said. However, I do think you are operating under some false information about lust and guys looking at you. The male visual attraction to women is actually a very good, God-designed thing. When guys look at you, yes, when they notice you have a female body, it is not automatically lustful. We are designed to be attracted to women physically. Now, it can become lustful, but the point between lust and not lust is not something easily seen or known. However, bear in mind that lust does not start when a guy feels physically/visually attracted to you. |
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Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
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Nicole
Posts:547
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| 11/07/2009 12:29 AM |
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Starlight, i would second taking Jojo's advice.
As long as you dress modestly and without thought of trying to attract guys' attention, then I'm sure you're fine. Do understand what David is saying though, God designed men to have a visual eye and it's a good thing if it's working. Lust is totally different from attraction.
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whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain |
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Starlight
Posts:8
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| 11/12/2009 9:40 PM |
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OK, thanks for the advice! So I should just quit worrying and make sure I act decent? And thanks for the 'tip' that guys arent always thinking lustful things--not that I thought they were all the time anyway! I see I have a lot to learn !!!! |
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clare
Posts:932
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| 11/13/2009 12:04 AM |
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I know girls who basically dress in bags (umm...I had to also cuz that's what out old church made you do) and even wearing shapeless dresses some girl's attitudes just made you look at them. They acted in a way that attracted attention. That doesn't mean you should wear something terribly immodest but say you have the right attitude!!
I beg to differ David! I can walk in front of a row of guys and tell you instantly who looked at me right in the eyes and I knew he was thinking "she'd make a great friend" or the guy that looked and thought "she's good looking" and that's all and the guy who went "ohhh yeah baby!" All my friends think it's weird how I can look someone in the eyes and know what's going on. Most guys think I'm trying to flirt, but it's just me, I do it to everyone, that is how I read people. So beware guys, you're eyes betray you. I like to call that my sixth sense
However, bear in mind that lust does not start when a guy feels physically/visually attracted to you.
Good point David, I find that actually scary though! I know women can be the exact same too. With so many many men becoming addicted to porn etc. it makes me wonder if there will be any young men left who have given their passions to the Lord (young women to) who value decent girls-and virginity! |
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Adelynn
Posts:516
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| 11/16/2009 12:07 PM |
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Clare is right, people's faces and body language often totally betray them. If you can get a basis for their "normal" expressions, it's so easy to read their thoughts.
And David is sooo right that there is a line of "That person is attractive" and "lust," and it's up to the person to control that and ask God to help them to recognize and control the thoughts! |
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"Angel of Mercy, how did you find me? How did you pick me up again? Angel of Mercy, how did you move me, why am I on my feet again?" -One Republic |
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Starlight
Posts:8
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| 11/22/2009 6:30 PM |
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| Yes I realize too that it's got a lot to do with the way you act, walk etc, and I know exactly what clare said about when you look at guys, you can often read what they're thinking. That's when I get embarrased when the guy's just looking at you and you know very well that he's thinking "she's good looking" etc, so that's kindof what I was asking but couldn't word it right! So it's nothing to do with how you dress?? |
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Adelynn
Posts:516
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| 11/22/2009 7:49 PM |
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It definitely has something to do with how you dress. You know when someone says "That leaves a lot to the imagination"? That is a good thing- it means the guys who aren't controlling their thoughts are only imagining and not picturing you.
But, there are some people who will not control their thoughts even if you are wearing a sack |
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"Angel of Mercy, how did you find me? How did you pick me up again? Angel of Mercy, how did you move me, why am I on my feet again?" -One Republic |
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David
Posts:499
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| 11/22/2009 11:29 PM |
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it means the guys who aren't controlling their thoughts are only imagining and not picturing you.
So if a guy who isn't controlling his thoughts is still imagining you, then imagining you must go along with having little to no control over one's thoughts, which, at least I'm inferring from you, is a bad thing. If so, when does it become appropriate for a guy to start imagining you? Why is it inappropriate for him to imaging you now? Also, what do you mean imagining? What exactly is the difference between imagining and picturing? |
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Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
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Adelynn
Posts:516
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| 11/23/2009 9:11 AM |
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picturing is seeing something- even from a memory- and imagining is... imagination =]
I'm not sure that it is wrong for a guy to picture or imagine a girl, as long as he doesn't dwell on it (mostly because that grosses me out when I know a guy is imagining what he can't see- I feel violated and disrespected). I'm not entirely sure when it's okay... after the wedding? =]
And yes, I think it's trouble when anyone doesn't control their thoughts, from guys looking at girls lustfully to girls doing the same or girls wishing that hott guy would take them out to dinner (which, in their imaginations, becomes giving her flowers and kissing her passionately and on and on... none of which are wrong, in the right context, but... I know a girl who dreams of being in bed with certain guys because she doesn't control her thoughts or what she watches for movies or reads for books...). I know that there are thoughts that cross our minds, but we can either laugh at ourselves for even thinking that and then move on, or we can dwell on it and see how far we can go with it... and that will twist our sense of reality and our expectations. |
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"Angel of Mercy, how did you find me? How did you pick me up again? Angel of Mercy, how did you move me, why am I on my feet again?" -One Republic |
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nateynate
Posts:316
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| 11/23/2009 1:38 PM |
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Alright im goona have to agree with David on this one. Its kinda hard to put a stop on imagination for guys, its just how we are, and sometimes thats a little unfortunate. An analogy i heard about a guys thoughts is that its like a waffle  and each box of the waffle holds different thoughts. So sometimes were in that "imagination" box (if that makes any sense), which isnt always a bad thing if we use it as God planned us to, which is through praise and non-lustful thoughts. However, some guys will twist and warp that "box" into something that isnt good in any ways. Which then, yes, imagination wouldnt be a good thing. So if your around those guys then i would be careful in how you put yourself out there, but if your around guys who are good christians and are on the right path and there heart is in the right place, i wouldnt worry to much. But dont be suprised if they slip now and then, were still human an we are guys . Hope that made sense and will help. |
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" Wake up oh my soul
wake up and praise the Lord
rise up you sleepy soul
rise up and praise the Lord"
Enter Your Gates |
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clare
Posts:932
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| 11/25/2009 9:27 PM |
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| I think it sounds like some peole are trying to see how close they can get before it becomes wrong. I know guys find it hard to stop once they get thinking, why argue if imagining or if picturing is ok and just say no, niether is ok! I don't want a guy to imagine or picture me. Sure guys are going to look at me and notice my build, looks and all but if it goes anything beyond that, it wierds me out. I'm not going to demand a guy who will never think about or notice girls. But if a guy is fantasizing about every girl he sees, then I'll be concerned. |
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David
Posts:499
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| 11/27/2009 10:43 AM |
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Everything being said here depends on our own personal definitions of imagining. Personally, I don't think it's wrong for a guy to notice, be attracted to, and possibly even dwell on a girls body - given that all this is done in a sense of celebrating God's creation of beauty, even sexual beauty. To me, it becomes lust once the girl, in the guys mind, stops being a beautiful creature of God and starts being just an object with which we can selfishly satisfy a visual desire.
The reason I argue this point so strongly is because most girls, being girls and being raised in a culture that degrades male sexuality, have no idea what's really going on in a guy's head, and, more often than not, end up perpetuating some very harmful things in guys.
I think it sounds like some peole are trying to see how close they can get before it becomes wrong.
This is not the case at all. To use a metaphor, think of our visual drives as eating food. What we guys are trying to figure out is what is a healthy amount and type of food to eat. What you are suggesting is anorexia.
But if a guy is fantasizing about every girl he sees, then I'll be concerned.
Given that the guy is single, why would you be concerned? Of course, this depends on your definition is fantasizing. If it fits into the brief description I gave above, why would his noticing God's beauty when he sees it be a wrong thing? Now, this does all change if he's not single. |
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Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.
- C.S. Lewis |
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clare
Posts:932
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| 11/27/2009 2:51 PM |
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You always beat me into a corner. Well since I am a girl I am just stating things from a girls perspective. I'm trying to understand how guys work!
I like your metaphore, It makes sense and I get what your saying. Ok I guess when I say fantasizing I mean when a guy is, as you said, turning a girl into an object rather than a beautiful woman God created. No it's not wrong for a guy to notice a girl, realize she's beautiful and maybe think something like "I hope my wife will have some of that" or whatever it is that goes n in his head. Neither is it wrong for a girl to look at a guy and say wow God is an amazing creator.
I guess I'm talking about the guys who use girls. I had a friend who told me in high school they would compare the girls. She has a better face, her chest is hott, that other girl's butt is sexier, all that is just sick. When guys do that to me it makes me so angry. Especially when I know guys are holding me up as the better and comparing others to me. i didn't make myself look the way I do. I can't help it I'm kind of pretty and have a perfect build. I don't mind if a guy says I'm good looking but when they start the eyebrow lifting they better watch out...don't mess with me.
I have more to say but I have to run...I'm working at a woman's shelter in another country and we have to take a very abused woman to another shelter because her family found out where she was, if her boyfreind finds here he will kill her. Maybe that's why I'm so fired up right now. I'm seeing first hand what lustful, greedy men do to satisfy their own selves.... |
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Scifi
Posts:68
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| 11/28/2009 8:03 PM |
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| It should probably be taken as a compliment if you dress modestly and guys still look at you
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"The purpose of Christianity is not to avoid difficulty, but to produce a character adequate to meet it when it comes. It does not make life easy; rather it tries to make us great enough for life." -- James L. Christensen
"For a small reward, a man will hurry away on a long journey; while for eternal life, many will hardly take a single step." Thomas a' Kempis (1380-1471)
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Scifi |
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wjr1991
Posts:232
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| 11/28/2009 10:10 PM |
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Claire, allow me to see if I can extricate you from this corner... though perhaps I'll just muddy the waters. I think, as I seem to often, I agree with David. At least, if he's saying what I think he's saying. First off, yes, the only reasonable way to prevent guys from noticing that you're a girl is, in fact, to package yourself in a box. (I'll leave out the part about putting that box in another box and mailing it to yourself, and smashing it with a hammer on arrival.)
Desires and an ability to appreciate something are not in and of themselves bad. Our physical desire (and hence our ability to appreciate a girl's physical beauty) is in and of itself no better or worse than a girl's relational desires (and her ability to notice confidence, consideration, and sweetness in a guy) which in its own turn is no better or worse than our mutual (though the other two are not exclusive) desire for food, and our ability to tell a five star chef's work from a Happy Meal. Again, a desire for a car is not bad, nor is the ability to appreciate good design in a car. It's a desire- it's how it's fulfilled or ignored that matters ultimately and before God. David has a point- some people really are trying to figure out how much is healthy to eat, as his metaphor went... it's also true that there are those trying to figure out a way to rationalize eating ridiculous amounts.
To take his metaphor a level deeper, let's put it this way, a girl's appearance and how guys treat it is very much like having friends over for dinner. The quality of the food is akin to your appearance. Some girls are very naturally gifted cooks, others have to learn, some girls could burn a salad, and some girls are natural five-star chefs who refuse to use their gifting at all. Again, tastes differ- some girls are talented Italian chefs, but couldn't barbecue to save their life, and some guys in their tastes like Italian and can't stand barbecue, or like both, or the other. And there are certain dishes you would prepare for a friend, others for a friend you "like", a third for your boyfriend, and your best would be saved for your husband. A guy's quandary is how much to eat, and if he ought to be satisfied with that. It's very true that there are guys who would force you to "bring out the best"... and they're utter creeps. It's also true there are guys who would fantasize about what "the best" is. Then there are guys, who I think David and I are among, who sit down at the table, and remember we are guests... as Proverbs puts it, we try to consider what is set before us, and keep a knife to our throats. We don't ask for more than the friends' course, but we are also aware that we can make a rude pig of ourselves even at that level. Obviously, it's harder to keep our appetite under control when the chef has done an excellent job. So when it comes to a guy's mind, there are two things we have to figure out: How much of the course for your friends is polite for us to take, and if it's improper for us to imagine what else you might be capable of cooking, especially your pièce de résistance. What David is saying is, it's natural for us to have a taste in food, and in a similar way, to recognize and appreciate it when we see it... in the same way, it's part of a guy's nature to recognize and appreciate beauty in a girl's form. Yes, it's possible to idolize it, or take it too far, but on its most natural level, it's perfectly normal and not good, and not bad.
So Claire, there are indeed guys who are trying to see how close they can get to "the line" where it's sinful, there are also guys who ponder where the line is because we know it's impossible to never notice a girl's appearance (though we might be able to "fast" for a short time) and yet we don't intend to cross the line- we want to know where the line is so we can remain respectful of general propriety, and not make pigs/dogs of ourselves. |
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Most of the nearly two billion children in the developing world have inadequate access to dinosaurs. Some receive no paleontology training at all. One in three has never even seen a dinosaur in person.
OVPC is an organization providing a means to an end - an end that sees children in even the most remote regions of the globe being given the motivation and adrenaline to tap into their own potential, identify with the survival needs of a global dinosaur-driven culture, and to contribute to a paleontological world community.
Support the cause at velociraptorz.org |
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wjr1991
Posts:232
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| 11/28/2009 10:14 PM |
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| And yes, Claire, I get the same feeling of righteous anger when women are being so used. I dunno if you've seen The Blindside, but if you can forgive the language in it (which I found almost exclusively was used as tastefully as possible- as in, almost always by despicable characters and only because that's what they really would talk like, if not worse) but there's a lot of the same sentiment carried in that. (And a death threat or two...) |
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Most of the nearly two billion children in the developing world have inadequate access to dinosaurs. Some receive no paleontology training at all. One in three has never even seen a dinosaur in person.
OVPC is an organization providing a means to an end - an end that sees children in even the most remote regions of the globe being given the motivation and adrenaline to tap into their own potential, identify with the survival needs of a global dinosaur-driven culture, and to contribute to a paleontological world community.
Support the cause at velociraptorz.org |
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wjr1991
Posts:232
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| 11/28/2009 10:28 PM |
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As to the original question, it looks like it got well answered- yes, there's a limit to what is modesty. I'm a stickler a lot of the time, and it irritates me when the term modesty is misused. In the verse that is almost always used as the Bible-thumping definition of modesty, the alternative is such things as braided hair, jewelry, etc. it's a warning about being ostentatious. Most Christians should not, in clear conscience, have a Rolls-Royce, a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, a Maserati, a Hummer and a Corvette at the same time. Most Christians teenaged girls should no be shelling out $3000 for a purse. There is a huge difference between paying money for quality and paying money for show. My shoes regularly cost $100+ a pair... because I wear L.L. Bean hiking boots most of the time. They're better quality, I'll pay for it. Same thing with my guitars- I'm fine paying $1000 for an American made Fender or Gibson rather than $350 for a Squier or Epiphone, because they're better made. Paying $24,000 for a PRS Dragon (hand-inlaid mother of pearl covering most of the guitar) is ridiculous in my eyes.
Ok, now that that rant is over: Dressing as we call "modestly" is, as some wise lady put it, dressing attractively, not dressing to attract. Your attitude really is what makes the difference there. Some girls can look "hot" in a flour sack. If you dress appropriately, and your attitude is right, any lust problems are entirely the guy's fault. Frankly, one of the most attractive girls I know wears ill-fitting t-shirts and jeans all the time... and she makes them look good in a very wholesome way. If she wore women's t-shirts, or... worked to be more "stylish" but not snobbish about her clothes, she could even make me lose my cool around her- she's that pretty. I have seen her dressed for occasions, and she really is a knockout... she just dresses down. Haven't decided if I think that's good or bad yet, it just is what it is. |
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Most of the nearly two billion children in the developing world have inadequate access to dinosaurs. Some receive no paleontology training at all. One in three has never even seen a dinosaur in person.
OVPC is an organization providing a means to an end - an end that sees children in even the most remote regions of the globe being given the motivation and adrenaline to tap into their own potential, identify with the survival needs of a global dinosaur-driven culture, and to contribute to a paleontological world community.
Support the cause at velociraptorz.org |
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clare
Posts:932
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| 11/28/2009 10:28 PM |
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| Wow what you said really made things make sense. thanks! I wish I knew more guys like you. I don't really have anything to say back! Just digesting it all. |
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